2.1.0 Reverb bug

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Pagine

Posts: 18
Joined: 5 Ott 2017 - 12:04
VMS 2.5.4 Reverb bug

Hi,

I'm on the last release, Virtual Midi Synth 2.5.4, from a while I noted a great bug about reverb and confirmed today definitely...

The VMS sometimes doesn't read and applies surely the CC91 control of reverb and maybe (I don't know) the other of chorus....

I was playing a midi and noted that the sound was without effects...
Then I opened the MIDI on CUBASE and I've seen that the midi had the REVERB at 127 for example on track CLEAN GUITAR and others, so I asked to myself: "Why VMS doesn't apply reverb?"

I checked the VMS settings about the effects (you can see in the attached videos), and my settings was "90" and "90" to max level reverb and chorus.

The strange thing is what happened then...
Casually I changed the reverb and chorus settings from 90 to 70, applied settings, closed and reopened VMS and the midi played normally with a lot of effects, reverb present normally.

But doesn't matter the level you change in the settings, I mean, if the initial level is 70, and the midi sounds without effects, if you change to 80, close and reopen, then it sounds with effects but not the same always, sometimes sounds with more reverb, sometimes with less, sometimes without reverb.

I tried the midi with other synth "WinLive Synth Engine", using the same soundfont I use on VMS, and all those problems disappear on WinLive.
So why those problems on VMS?

I attach rar archive.
In the archive you can find the midi I used in the videos, and the two videos, one with 90 reverb level where you hear NO reverb. And second one with 70 reverb, when you can hear full reverb, too strange...

Attachments (Only registered users)
REVERB BUG VIDEO PROOF AND MIDI TEST.rar
Posts: 1662
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 - 01:19
Re: VMS 2.5.4 Reverb bug

Thanks for posting your videos to this bug report.
It's clear that the MIDI played with MaxReverb=90 is much less reverbered (if not reverbered at all) than the one played with MaxReverb=70.

I'd like to be able to reproduce this bug, but there should be something I'm missing on my side.

Maybe it's the "sequence" of operations, so my questions are:

  1. I see from video timestamps that you played the "70" before, than the "90", right?
    But I need to know which was the initial condition: VMS closed, VanBasco closed, double click on MIDI file then start VanBasco and then (automatically) VMS, ...?
  2. what happened between the two videos?
    (you closed both VanBasco and VMS, changed Reverb setting then restarted VanBasco? Or did you close VanBasco only? Or didn't you close both of them?)
  3. does this bug happen each time you follow a specific sequence of steps or only sometimes (randomly)?

Could you please post a detailed list of steps to follow to make the bug happen?
Could you also post a screenshot of VanBasco setup (MIDI, Karaoke and Misc tabs)?

Should also be great to have a single "uncutted" video where, starting with both VanBasco and VMS closed, you play the same file with the two Reverb settings.
Feel free to upload a private YouTube/Vimeo video and share the link here, if it's better for you...

Posts: 18
Joined: 5 Ott 2017 - 12:04
Re: VMS 2.5.4 Reverb bug
coolsoft wrote:

Thanks for posting your videos to this bug report.
It's clear that the MIDI played with MaxReverb=90 is much less reverbered (if not reverbered at all) than the one played with MaxReverb=70.

I'd like to be able to reproduce this bug, but there should be something I'm missing on my side.

Maybe it's the "sequence" of operations, so my questions are:

  1. I see from video timestamps that you played the "70" before, than the "90", right?
    But I need to know which was the initial condition: VMS closed, VanBasco closed, double click on MIDI file then start VanBasco and then (automatically) VMS, ...?
  2. what happened between the two videos?
    (you closed both VanBasco and VMS, changed Reverb setting then restarted VanBasco? Or did you close VanBasco only? Or didn't you close both of them?)
  3. does this bug happen each time you follow a specific sequence of steps or only sometimes (randomly)?

Could you please post a detailed list of steps to follow to make the bug happen?
Could you also post a screenshot of VanBasco setup (MIDI, Karaoke and Misc tabs)?

Should also be great to have a single "uncutted" video where, starting with both VanBasco and VMS closed, you play the same file with the two Reverb settings.
Feel free to upload a private YouTube/Vimeo video and share the link here, if it's better for you...

Ehi the timestamp doesn't matters.. Because I forgotten to register, and so I repeated the procedure to make youu see the bug after, but it happened also before... The bug happens always, also today with other midi... It's too much frustrating... And to correct bug and have the correct reverb and chorus, I think it's not necessary to close and restart VMS, it needs only that you modify of value 1 for example the settings of the rev and chorus level in VMS window settings, click "apply" and then it works, I think... However you have the midi and you can test... It happens also with others midis.. It's too much frustrating...

Posts: 1662
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 - 01:19
Re: VMS 2.5.4 Reverb bug
Luca Tilenni wrote:
And to correct bug and have the correct reverb and chorus, I think it's not necessary to close and restart VMS, it needs only that you modify of value 1 for example the settings of the rev and chorus level in VMS window settings, click "apply" and then it works

This is how to fix it once the bug happened; I'm still not able to make it happen.

Luca Tilenni wrote:
However you have the midi and you can test... It happens also with others midis.. It's too much frustrating...

I've tried a hundred times on my machine and each time I play your MIDI it plays fine.
I agree, it's also frustrating for me to not be able to reproduce it on my side :(
That's why I'm trying to have a detailed step-by-step list of actions to reproduce it...

Posts: 18
Joined: 5 Ott 2017 - 12:04
Re: VMS 2.5.4 Reverb bug
coolsoft wrote:
Luca Tilenni wrote:
And to correct bug and have the correct reverb and chorus, I think it's not necessary to close and restart VMS, it needs only that you modify of value 1 for example the settings of the rev and chorus level in VMS window settings, click "apply" and then it works

This is how to fix it once the bug happened; I'm still not able to make it happen.

Luca Tilenni wrote:
However you have the midi and you can test... It happens also with others midis.. It's too much frustrating...

I've tried a hundred times on my machine and each time I play your MIDI it plays fine.
I agree, it's also frustrating for me to not be able to reproduce it on my side :(
That's why I'm trying to have a detailed step-by-step list of actions to reproduce it...

ehi if I'm not wrong you're italian right? Me too, if it's ok, let's contact in private, we can talk (for example in whatsapp) more easily and in italian and then post here the results of discussion and test... Let me know...

Posts: 1662
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 - 01:19
Re: VMS 2.5.4 Reverb bug

Hooray! I think I've found what was wrong (and why I was not able to reproduce it ;))

I got lucky when I tried to reproduce the bug using the RELEASE version of VMS (I usually run the DEBUG version inside my development environment).
Well, the bug was not related to DEBUG/RELEASE mode, but in DEBUG (the one I usually use) it was much much less evident :(

To make a long story short: reverb and sustain initial values were not initialized correctly at start, so they got some kind of "random" initial value (depending on compiler optimizations).
RELEASE builds, sadly, had this value very low...

I've made a quick-fix to version 2.5.4, just to check if I've really hit the target ;)
Please test the attached version and confirm if it works.
If yes, will port the fix to next official version.

Attachments (Only registered users)
CoolSoft_VirtualMIDISynth_2.5.4-reverbfix.zip
Posts: 18
Joined: 5 Ott 2017 - 12:04
Re: VMS 2.5.4 Reverb bug
coolsoft wrote:

Hooray! I think I've found what was wrong (and why I was not able to reproduce it ;))

I got lucky when I tried to reproduce the bug using the RELEASE version of VMS (I usually run the DEBUG version inside my development environment).
Well, the bug was not related to DEBUG/RELEASE mode, but in DEBUG (the one I usually use) it was much much less evident :(

To make a long story short: reverb and sustain initial values were not initialized correctly at start, so they got some kind of "random" initial value (depending on compiler optimizations).
RELEASE builds, sadly, had this value very low...

I've made a quick-fix to version 2.5.4, just to check if I've really hit the target ;)
Please test the attached version and confirm if it works.
If yes, will port the fix to next official version.

Thanks, Thanks, Thanks, Thanks! I'm testing right now, and everything seems to be ok, yes the "Random" reverb bug seems disappeared. I created same conditions for the bug, and bug doesn't appear... We wait for feedback from other users,
but I think it's solved, really thanks again...

Posts: 18
Joined: 5 Ott 2017 - 12:04
Re: VMS 2.5.4 Reverb bug

However now the bug is corrected, but they are two years that I noticed also other thing about "reverb" on VMS, in comparison with other synths or hardware (like M-L*ve X-Light demos on "song*ervice" website, or maybe the same Sound Canvas 88 I don't know), ie. the reverb, at the same level setted on the midi, is less evident that others softwares/hardwares on M-L*ve midis and others, specially for values under level 64...

Maybe I'm wrong and VMS is correct and respect the value of the midi about reverb power, I don't know, but you can check and compair for example with "Sound Canvas for Windows" to see if the reverb effect is less/more evident.

For example I attached this midi from "midis*ft "(old name of M-*ive), where the channel 10 (Drums) has reverb ("Effect1Dep" in Cubase) setted to 50, and maybe the Snare (note 38 of drum) reverb 50 should appear more evident than VMS does... Can you compair with other hardwares or with Sound Canvas for Windows to see if the reverb presence is the same beetwen VMS and others? Maybe I'm wrong and in this case VMS applies 50 reverb correctly, I want only a confirmation, thanks..

Attachments (Only registered users)
Zucchero - Donne [Midisoft Utenti].rar
Posts: 47
Joined: 25 Apr 2016 - 12:19
Re: VMS 2.5.4 Reverb bug

Excellent, I've tried VMS 2.5.4-reverbfix and it seems to have solved the incorrect synth initialisation. Clean install, test, works. Reboot PC, test, works! Thank you. :-)

http://kiwi6.com/artists/GEN_MIDI

Posts: 81
Joined: 25 Set 2013 - 16:38
Re: VMS 2.5.4 Reverb bug

Hi, I have also tested this new version and I have still found problems. I have made a video about them:

https://youtu.be/ajvdpSAPAMw

1. Default Reverb/Chorus values are only applied if  'Override received MIDI SysEx messages' is also selected.

Selecting 'Override' should only influence if received SysEx messages could change the value set by VMS, not that VMS default values are applied or not (1st part of the video).

2. Even when 'Override' is enabled VMS still does not detect the ubiquitous GM ON SysEx reset message so any sent GM ON message resets Reverb/Chorus to Bassmidi default without VMS even knowing about it (2nd part of the video).

I think it would be good to fix all Reverb/Chorus realated bugs in 1 new update/version :)

Bye

Pagine