drumkit bug

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Posts: 19
Joined: May 20, 2018 - 02:30
drumkit bug

Your synth doesn't support the XG controller 127 like BASSMIDI driver from kode54. 127:016 dumkit as melodic set not drumkit. Ian Luck XMplay fixed it months ago. here is a midi sample data for testing. If you need the drumkit use my Giant soundfont drumkit from my site XG drumkit ;)

http://www.share-online.biz/dl/7S7NGXDOIQ3

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=02042741410815145331

Use the ambient .MID for checking.

Posts: 19
Joined: May 20, 2018 - 02:30
Re: drumkit bug

the 127:016 is an example for all drumkit instruments on this area wont played. the synth use actually the 000 area like 000:016 and ignored the sysex.

Posts: 79
Joined: September 25, 2013 - 16:38
Re: drumkit bug

This must be some configuratiom/midi player/soundfont problem since VMS 2.4 has no problem playing your file correctly with right settings. Actually channel 10 should always work as a Drum channel even in case of SysEx/Bank MSB 127 problems since bassmidi by default always use Channel 10 for drums in GM/GS/XG mode . The only exception is GM2 mode. In this mode bassmidi only uses a channel as Drum channel if Bank MSB is set to 120.

Your file also uses channel 9 as Drum channel. Channel 9 as Drum channel only works if XG mode is set properly and Bank MSB is properly set to 127. Here's a video how your file is played with newest VMS (correctly):

https://youtu.be/iHguOqCZHfk

So check you player if GM2 reset SysEx is not sent accidentally and/or if your player enabled sending SysEx messages properly from files.

Posts: 19
Joined: May 20, 2018 - 02:30
Re: drumkit bug

Ok im back i tested a bit and this is the result:

The VMS 2.4 didn't support XG 127 corectly as i said like BASS MIDI driver from kode 54. I used Winamp, Windows media player, van brascos. karaoke player all same bug. Only player played correctly is the MIDI player in your Video that means only the midi player with own plugin like XMPlay 3.8 with MIDI plugin can play this file. The midi mapper itself from VMS 2.4 didn't work on 127. Play the same file with this i testet and u will see what i mean ;) your MIDI player in the video supports his own mapping.

Posts: 19
Joined: May 20, 2018 - 02:30
Re: drumkit bug

Hello Andre,

To investigate the problem, could you please send an example MIDI file that's affected by it?

Thanks,
Ian.

On 03/03/2014 18:01, Andre wrote:

Hi i noticed a bug on melodic preset drumkit for XG. 127/000 (XG drumkit area) for XG playback. It uses the other correctly like 064 or other. But on 127 it fall back to drumkit preset 000:000 for example or 127:025 to 000:025 This seems to be a bug.

Send me back an answer. It would be nice if u can fix this bug.

That was the message i wrote ian luck before he fixed it.

Your falcon soundfont use only 000:000 up to 000:127 drumkit. Your 127:000 up to 127:127 presets are all melodic with normal instruments 127:025 is not synthbrass 127:025 is an XG analog preset. The ambient is an XG file from XG70 demo. My awave studio 11.2 shows me the programm presets from your sf file. check it with the bennetng another soundfont

the second test showed me that the midi player didn't played it too in your video i testet it on my own i was wrong. the only player played it correctly is xmplay midi plugin.

I sent you a link before from my drumkit the XG. test it with xmplay and winamp or windows media player. You will hear the difference.

Posts: 18
Joined: May 27, 2015 - 16:09
Re: drumkit bug

Hello everyone ... intrigued by the discussion .... I wanted to do the tests myself ... and in my opinion the presets are loaded well .. only thing and that in the mixer channel of VMS is loaded in the name of the wrong preset ..but the tool is right .......sorry for my english I used a translator

Posts: 79
Joined: September 25, 2013 - 16:38
Re: drumkit bug

I dont know what 'own mapping' you are talking about. The midi player in my video simply played the file and does not used any custom mappings or transformations.

It's rather hard to understand your English but I think I understand what your problem is. First, this is not true:

ex-driver wrote:
127:016 dumkit as melodic set not drumkit ... the synth use actually the 000 area like 000:016 and ignored the sysex.

VMS works exactly like Bassmidi works by default. Namely in XG mode it copies bank 128 (not  000 !) to bank 127 so you can get drumkits in XG midi songs even if you use typical GS soundfonts. This can only result in melodic sound instead of Drums if your soundfont does not contain Drums at Bank 128 (very rare and not wise because of compatibility issues). All soundfonts should contain drum kits at least in bank 128.

Remember that soundfont as a technology is much more GS like than XG. The original SF2 soundfonts from EMU/Creative all used GS like bank addressing.

Your problem is that you specifically placed your Drum kits at bank 127, and instead of bank 127 you get bank 128 drumkits in XG mode. This is true. This is the default behavior of bassmidi for preserving compatibility for the more frequent/popular GS soundfonts. GS soundfonts typically do not contain drums at bank 127 but an MT-32 compatible standard instrument map!

You can find in Bassmidi's documentation ( http://www.un4seen.com/doc/#bassmidi/BASS_MIDI_FontInit.html ):

BASS_MIDI_FontInit
BASS_MIDI_FONT_XGDRUMS Use bank 127 in the soundfont for XG drum kits. When an XG drum kit is needed, bank 127 in soundfonts that have this flag set will be checked first, before falling back to bank 128 (the standard SF2 drum kit bank) if it is not available there. 

So if you want to use bank 127 as native XG drum bank you specifically have to set the BASS_MIDI_FONT_XGDRUMS flag in your BASS_MIDI_FontInit() call. But notice that this flag will kill all GS comaptible soundfonts with XG midi files (you will get melodic sounds instead of drums). VMS does not use this flag and I think this flag should not be set unconditionally. Setting this flag would cure your problem, but would sacfrifice compatibility with all GS soundfonts. So instead it should be only an option if someone like you want to use XG like drum kits at bank 127. So once again this is not a bug, but the default behavior of Bassmidi.

Posts: 79
Joined: September 25, 2013 - 16:38
Re: drumkit bug

Anyway making 'XG compatible' SF2 soundfonts is a mission impossible. Such a single soundfont (even in theory) is not possible. While theoretically you can create a full SC-55 GS implementation with a soundfont (I mean the full program/bank combinations) you cannot implement even the XG Lite standard with a soundfont. The reason is the limitation of SF2 format itself. Soundfonts are tightly linked to GS and they can only use 128 banks that are usually addressable by Bank MSB. XG requires Bank MSB+LSB addressing (so 16384 possible banks).

 E.g. the SFX bank that is addressable by Bank MSB 64 in XG and the the variation bank that is addressable by Bank LSB 64 in XG would collide. So you should sacrifice either the the LSB Bank 64 or the MSB Bank 64 but both choices breaks XG compatibility unfortunately. There is no perfect solution to this problem: in SF2 there is only 1 bank 'dimension' (0..127 for melodic and 128 for drums) but XG compatibility would require 2 (0..127 for MSB and 0..127 for LSB).

Posts: 19
Joined: May 20, 2018 - 02:30
Re: drumkit bug

I'm a bit confused. You said your bass midi use all the time 128 as default even with XG midis. The docmentaion said it check first 127 and after that 128. I got a gs/gm soundfont and an XG drumkit. It is not impossible if u got a good program like awave studio. I got no problems with xmplay gm/gs or XG. I know that you can't combine a gm/gs/xg in one font. But u can split it in 2 one gm/gs and XG. Your own font u tested is only a gm/gs soundfont. For testing ambient.mid you need a Compatible soundfont like bennetng another soundfont. Ian Luck fixed it with an option in the midi plugin named "Use bank 127 drums in XG mode when available...else map XG drums to GS to equivalents." I got no worng playback with this. For now VMS use only GS/GM mode not XG correctly. It should be possible to set an option in your settiings menu do do this. so u cann set it back to default order. I dont want to make you angry. I only want to help you to make your work one thing better what kode 54 didn't finished. ian luck had. I really love your work. Sry for that it's hard to exlain what i mean XD. XG has no limitations for drumkit channels. it needs only the 127.

Posts: 19
Joined: May 20, 2018 - 02:30
Re: drumkit bug

"The bass midi copies 128 in 127 section" .that is wrong. 127 use different other presets. that is what ian luck changed. his midi plugin work with 2 modes. 127 and 128. with diferrent other instuments for drumkit. first 127 after that 128 if not present. Like the documentaion said. this means is use the wrong instuments in this mode for now. For example i need for  ambient channel 8 127:025 with a normal or TR808 highhat. but it plays 128.025 with an TR909 highhat. These are 2 diferrent options. It ignores my 127 first. BASSMIDI can play XG as well not only XG Lite.

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