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Home › Forum home › VirtualMIDISynth › General discussions & questions › Output of VirtualMIDISynth MIDI Converter is not the same as the audio output of VirtualMidiSynth ›Output of VirtualMIDISynth MIDI Converter is not the same as the audio output of VirtualMidiSynth
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Ok, I've done the required changes... now show me your content!- Piotr Grochowski
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 28 Apr 2019 - 08:24
- coolsoft
- Posts: 1972
- Joined: 25 Mar 2012 - 01:19
Starting from Windows 7 (or maybe Vista, I don't remember, exactly..) Microsoft introduced a builtin audio compressor on the analog audio device chain.
Lot of forums talk about it and propose some methods to reduce (or disable) it:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/257844-disable-windows-7-sound-...
https://technicallyeasy.net/disable-audio-enhancements-windows-10/
In my experience the best way I've found to limit it is to decrease the Master volume to about 90% (and compensate it with my external amplifier...).
In VMS take a look at Master volume VUMeter and ensure it never reaches the red part.
- Piotr Grochowski
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 28 Apr 2019 - 08:24
coolsoft wrote:Starting from Windows 7 (or maybe Vista, I don't remember, exactly..) Microsoft introduced a builtin audio compressor on the analog audio device chain.
Lot of forums talk about it and propose some methods to reduce (or disable) it:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/257844-disable-windows-7-sound-...
https://technicallyeasy.net/disable-audio-enhancements-windows-10/In my experience the best way I've found to limit it is to decrease the Master volume to about 90% (and compensate it with my external amplifier...).
In VMS take a look at Master volume VUMeter and ensure it never reaches the red part.
How does "90%" achieve much, if levels of audio can reach above 400%? (okay it does depend on the exact midi file and the exact soundfont used)
there are 2 files: midirendersound.wav which is the fixed point output of the played sound of the MIDI, and midirenderconverted.wav which is the floating point output of the converter. Note how the played sound has distorted volume, and the converted version has a peak of about 478.31% which would obviously be clipped when played.
- Attachments (Only registered users)
- midirenderconverted.zip
- midirendersound.zip
- coolsoft
- Posts: 1972
- Joined: 25 Mar 2012 - 01:19
Have you tried to convert MIDI while VMS Master volume (on VMS MIDI Mixer) is set at 80-90%.
Or, another way, set the soundfont volume below 100%.
Does it make the rendered file better?
- Piotr Grochowski
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 28 Apr 2019 - 08:24
coolsoft wrote:Have you tried to convert MIDI while VMS Master volume (on VMS MIDI Mixer) is set at 80-90%.
Or, another way, set the soundfont volume below 100%.
Does it make the rendered file better?
Why would I slightly miscalibrate the volume setting to remove 10% of the volume distortion (while playing) or volume clipping (while exporting)? This doesn't make sense. At a correctly calibrated setting of 100%, sounds with a total volume above 100% get distorted to 100% while playing, but their volume is preserved while exporting, but only in floating point. When exporting in anything else than floating point, the exporting tool generates clipping artifacts, without any warning of that coming.
- coolsoft
- Posts: 1972
- Joined: 25 Mar 2012 - 01:19
Piotr Grochowski wrote:Why would I slightly miscalibrate the volume setting to remove 10% of the volume distortion (while playing) or volume clipping (while exporting)?
When I've said "reduce to 90%" I meant "reduce to 90%, then 80%, then 70%..." to find the best value that leads to undistorted output.
VirtualMIDISynth play is less affected to distortion, because Windows Audio subsystem has a built-in compressor (as I wrote above); MIDI Converter, instead, has some kind of "direct output" which should not be compressed at all.
I suppose there's something unusual in your soundfont and/or the MIDI file.
Feel free to post their name/links (if freely available) so I can test them on my side and have a look.
Beware: I'm not such an expert in SF2 internals, but maybe someone more expert than me (@Falcosoft ;)) could jump in.
- Piotr Grochowski
- Posts: 5
- Joined: 28 Apr 2019 - 08:24
" When I've said "reduce to 90%" I meant "reduce to 90%, then 80%, then 70%..." to find the best value that leads to undistorted output. "
Again, why would I miscalibrate my volume? Doesn't a post-processing normalization do the same thing?
" I suppose there's something unusual in your soundfont and/or the MIDI file.
Feel free to post their name/links (if freely available) so I can test them on my side and have a look. "
There isn't anything wrong with the soundfont https://musical-artifacts.com/artifacts/727
There isn't anything wrong with the midi files http://midkar.com/classical/classical_04.html
I don't think the midi specification forbids the total volume of active notes to exceed 1. When 4 notes of volume 1 play at the same time, the overall volume will be 4 which would be either clipped or distorted while playing.
- Nguyen 1
- Posts: 4
- Joined: 23 Mar 2020 - 20:17
coolsoft wrote:Starting from Windows 7 (or maybe Vista, I don't remember, exactly..) Microsoft introduced a builtin audio compressor on the analog audio device chain.
Lot of forums talk about it and propose some methods to reduce (or disable) it:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pc-based/257844-disable-windows-7-sound-...
https://technicallyeasy.net/disable-audio-enhancements-windows-10/In my experience the best way I've found to limit it is to decrease the Master volume to about 90% (and compensate it with my external amplifier...).
In VMS take a look at Master volume VUMeter and ensure it never reaches the red part.
I'd appreciate very much if you implement a clipping protection for the converter.
- coolsoft
- Posts: 1972
- Joined: 25 Mar 2012 - 01:19
Nguyen 1 wrote:I'd appreciate very much if you implement a clipping protection for the converter.
Well, it requires the converter to pre-analyze the MIDI (like converting it in-memory) to find peaks, then decrease volume and retry again till it finds an unclipped volume level.
This additional conversion will greatly increase conversion time, and most of the times it's useless...
AFAIR there's no way to get the actual volume during the conversion, because it's not done in realtime like VMS MIDI live play (where the MIDI Mixer polls MIDI synth to get instant volume level).
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